Wednesday, April 05, 2006

More on Wal-Mart, Fascism and the Republican Agenda

"The fascist state regulates and controls (as opposed to nationalizing) the means of production." -- Canuck in the earlier post's comments

The best part about your statement is right there, Canuck. Without trying to piss you off, I would like to direct your eyes to the 'Made In China' labels on nearly all of the non-food items at Wal-Mart. If you are against fascism and government controls, then you should not be shopping at Wal-Mart. Many of their products are made in Chinese prison factories.

Furthermore, the bill does not say that Wal-Mart must offer the employees health care (another issue altogether, that should be a standard benefit), it says that Wal-Mart can not foist its employee's health care onto the state. This prevents larger government because if the state is providing health care for all, then the state must have a large health care system. Conservatives claim that they don't want large government or full public health care.

Those who support Wal-mart in its attempts to refuse benefits to its employees are also tacitly supporting a monopolistic economy. Allowing Wal-Mart to continue behaving the way it was allows for a competitive advantage conferred by the state of Maryland. This is an endorsement of a company by a government. This is not a free market economy. A free market economy forces all companies of similar size and business nature to abide by the same rules and regulations. Wal-Mart was trying to skirt the rules and thereby gain an advantage. The only difference between their actions and a company illegally dumping waste is that the people that work for Wal-Mart are not waste. Wal-Mart just treats them like waste.

Only Republicans claim that they are in favor of a free market economy. If you look at voting records and the results of their work and ignore the contents of their shallow, meaningless speeches, you will begin to learn that this political group does not care about citizens and the rule of law. They care solely about money and their big budget donors.

47 comments:

Anonymous said...

Washington Post 4/6/2005 Lawmakers said they did not set out to single out Wal-Mart when they drafted a bill requiring organizations with more than 10,000 employees to spend at least 8 percent of their payroll on health benefits -- or put the money directly into the state's health program for the poor.

I have a very good friend, who is full time and has been with Walmart for 11 years, she likes her health coverage, no problems with it. Aren't all full time employees receiving health benefits or was this bill passed because Walmart only picks and chooses which full time employees they will give benefits to?

Another question, what was Maryland spending on their social medical before Walmart come along compared to afterwards. So far it just sounds like Maryland is looking for a way to have someone else pay for their social medical problems.

As for the comment about not purchasing products from China because I'm against fascism is silly. I just told you how I like my food and cleaning supplies cheap.

Pinko Punko said...

Canuck is a moron. Also, the "my friend" argument doesn't fly. I know a bunch of people in cults that like their lives just fine, QED, cobag! QED!!!!

teh l4m3 said...

I go for Dickies and Wrangler shirts.

Oh, and personal lubricant.

Anonymous said...

Pinko, since your only contribution to this conversation is calling me a moron and cobag, I will reply with an oldie but goodie, takes one to know one.

Adorable Girlfriend said...

teh, teh, you better not be going to Wal-Mart.

You can get lower priced lube at Target and you don't need that other stuff, you young hot sexy thing.

If you want to make change with Wal-Mart, go here:
http://www.wakeupwalmart.com/feature/birthday/

I'll comment later when I have time on what Canuck said.

Chuckles said...

Canuck, Wal-Mart provides health care for the managers and administrative employees, but was not providing anything to the full time staff, like the cashiers and stockers. These are the people who are paid the least and abused by Wal-Mart's business practices.

The old conservative argument of 'go work someplace else' falls apart, because not everyone has the means or desire to leave town to find different work. Once Wal-Mart opened in Beloit, the downtown businesses were doomed. There were two book stores and an art supply store. Neither could compete with Wal-Mart's crushingly low prices and they closed.

China is not a free democracy and is certainly not socialist. The cheap goods in Wal-Mart come from China and are cheap because of the ridiculously low wages in China, the slave labor provided by the prisons, and the Most Favored Nation status. If you really want to prove you are a patriot, you should buy American made goods.

Anonymous said...

Chuckles, I said I get my food and cleaning supplies from Walmart. Food and cleaning supplies don't come from China, silly. $2 hookers and mail order brides maybe...

Second, I would still like to see the numbers from Maryland where their state buget for medical went up because Walmart hit their area.

Different subject but, how much do you expect cashiers and stockers to be paid? Walmart is a retail busniess that pays retail wages. Should one choose to work in the retail business they should expect to be paid retail wages.

Chuckles said...

Canuck, I am sure that you can find the Maryland state budgets somewhere online. Try google. But that won't help you one bit. Medicare is a Federal program. I have downloaded the budget on PDF before, but it is huge. Go for it.

Before you make statements that the food and cleaning supplies in Wal-Mart don't come from China, you might want to check where they do come from. You will probably be surprised. As for me, there isn't a Wal-Mart within 10 miles and I wouldn't bike that far anyway for their crappy products or even just to survey the labels.

fulsome said...

Canuck,

There used to be these things called unions that made sure workers got paid a reasonable wages for a full days work, retail or otherwise...Nowadays???

Oh, and maybe you should look at where your cleaning supplies come from a little more closely.

Colgate toothbrushes are being made in China and toothpaste in India. Give the rest of these things a few more years

Anonymous said...

So, basically I shouldn't buy anything from anywhere. How do you people survive?

Anonymous said...

Also, my comment was about how you guys are so against fascism (Bush=Bush hitler, fascist, etc) yet when the government comes in and does EXACTLY that, (fascism) you praise them. It wasn't about where Walmart gets their stock or and what they have in stock. They have the exact same things as other stores.

I'm not against Walmart and will continue shopping there. It's the government telling business what they can and can't do/stock is what I'm against, and I was surprised that you are for that decision, Chuckles, even if it is Walmart.

Chuckles said...

"Bush=Bush Hitler"

I have never and will never make this stupid claim. I have claimed and will continue to claim that Bush and the administration push the fear button and use claims of security to break the law repeatedly.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

The preamble says it pretty clearly. The US Government is supposed to be of the people, by the people and for the people. The so-called Wal-Mart bill, which affects all organizations employing more than 10,000, is protecting the general welfare and preventing the exploitation of these employees. Answer this question, Canuck: why is it acceptable for Maryland to tacitly endorse Wal-Mart as a state company by not approving this bill? Would that not be a step toward fascism?

Wal-Mart's stated policy is that certain employees (non-management) will use Medicare. Other comparably sized companies in Maryland were paying for their employee benefits. Wal-Mart was abusing the system and now it is required to stop abusing the system.

Chuckles said...

Actually, I may have made jokes in the past about Bush being Hitler-esque or even used Bushitler in jest. I have been rather commenty on more than a few blogs. Still, it is a dumb phrase.

teh l4m3 said...

A truly unfettered, free-market economy as (somewhat incoherently) envisioned by republiconservatarians inevitably trends towards monopoly, which directly threatens the common welfare, and indeed, the American way of life itself; monopolization is the surest path to corporatist fascism as dreamt of by Mussolini and his like.

In order to foster competitiveness, a healthy economy, and a healthy country, it is necessary at times for the people, via the agency of government, to impose certain controls on corporate America. Like it or not, canuck and peeve, a modicum of socialism, as you term it, is necessary if we are to maintain our civil liberties, and the thriving middle class necessary to the continuance of a representative democracy.

It's necessary to keep corporations somewhat under-thumb, redundant, and at each others' throats, lest they come at ours.

political_refugee said...

Truly, all people, rich or poor should be entitled to health insurance of some sort. Perhaps there should be another mandatory tax throughout the US used for health insurance and based on income.
If the government wanted to really be for the people, there would be a much higher minimum wage and much higher income-based income tax which penalized persons for making too much money. Not only would the rich be less rich the poor would be less poor. This means that the entire population is middle class. Quality of life goes up and crime goes down.
Idealistic, perhaps but this works in certain European nations. EU and not.

Chuckles said...

Go! Sweden.

teh l4m3 said...

Yeah. Makes all those kneejerk calls from wingnuts to "Support Denmark" seem that much more strange.

Truly, the modern Republican's mind is so compartmentalized it resembles a redundantly hermetic jumbo tacklebox.

almostinfamous said...

walmart discriminates against women glass ceiling style, employs illegal aliens and is known to lock them up in stores which close, doesn;t provide a living wage, is ferociously anti-union to the point of firing people for even talking about organizing, and for the most part it's lowest prices are on the 'great value' poison it sells. that, to me is a despicable company no matter how big or small it is but made worse by the fact that it is, you know the second largest company on the fortune 500. a few million dollars here and there will make NO difference to the amount of profit made.

on the other hand, the kroger store-branded stuff isn't nearly as suck-tastic while being at the same or slightly(pennies) more than the wal-mart crap. i compared them for about 6 months so i know what i talks about.

i have shopped at sam's club(in parkersburg, WV) and only because they sold handles(that's 1.75l or almost half a gallon) of jim beam, smirnoff and capt. morgan in one location for dirt cheap(~20 bucks a piece), and you don't need to be a member to buy alcohol there.

and canuck: So far it just sounds like Maryland is looking for a way to have someone else pay for their social medical problems.

FLIP FLOP, BITCH!

Chuckles said...

The 8 percent was designed to pay for the expenses of Wal-Mart's employees that were on the Medicare rolls.

Anonymous said...

Well, Walmart bashing aside, it still comes down to the government telling businesses what they can and can not do. Personally, I don't like it.

Walmart is a retail store, not some huge factory where workers are dying daily. What I find interesting is, before Walmart was in Maryland, how many of people were already on Medicare? How many were already on less than "living wages"? Are you saying all the employees at Walmart left good paying jobs so they could make less? And how much should a stocker or cashier make? It is unskilled labour. Should the unskilled get paid almost equal to that of someone who is skilled? Are you willing to give up 50% or more of your paychecks to support those who choose not to go to school and learn a skill? I'm not.

Chuckles said...

"Walmart is a retail store, not some huge factory where workers are dying daily."

You are right in that people don't generally die due to the working conditions at Wal-mart. They die due to the working conditions in the factories that provide all the goods sold at Wal-Mart.

Government is supposed to provide laws that prevent people from harming each other. These laws also apply to businesses. This is why you can't advertise by tatooing your logo on some kid's forehead or driving up sales for a new handbag by murdering the first 30 people to buy one. The government created the Securities Exchange Commision to prevent businesses from engaging in profitable schemes to rip off investors like the ones that precipitated the great crash in the early part of the 20th century.
Canuck, gov't protects us from ourselves and from our enemies. It also protects businesses from the same.

Adorable Girlfriend said...

Maryland data is not available, however in Georgia, more than 10,000 dependant children of Wal-Mart workers were listed on the state Medicaid program according to the group known as, Wake-up Walmart. They report this number to be more than 14 times that of any other employer.

And Canuck you might do some research on the US before running your fingers off. Medicare is for the ederly. Medicaid is for the poor and disabled. Anyone with a job pays into Medicare and is afforded it by citizenship. Who was on Medicare before the Wal-Mart law is not the issue.

If you are against employers being told what to do then I guess you are anti hand washing laws, minimum wage and maternity leave protection.

Good to know where you stand.

Anonymous said...

They die due to the working conditions in the factories that provide all the goods sold at Wal-Mart. You already know my response to this, Walmart is not the only company to purchase goods from shady countries. However, until the whole United States refuses to import from said countries I still need to make my purchases. (Whether it be Walmart or wherever.)

Canuck, gov't protects us from ourselves and from our enemies. This is where you and I differ. I do not believe the government needs to protect me from me.

Anyway, I haven't yet thanked you for responding to my question, so, thanks.

Anonymous said...

AG, then I suppose my question should have read, how many people were on Medicaid before Walmart appeared.

Geez, I didn't even know there was a law stating you had to wash your hands, how ridiculous is that. Should an employer be made to keep paying wages for a woman who takes time off to have a baby, no, however, it would be the most excellent benefit. (Yes, the company should hold her job until after the 6 week time given.)

As for minimum wage, fine. However, now we have people for this "living-wage", when will it end?

Chuckles said...

"Geez, I didn't even know there was a law stating you had to wash your hands, how ridiculous is that."

Canuck, do you really want somebody handling your food at a restaurant that has just come from the bathroom with unwashed hands? The health codes for food sales exist to protect the public health. Just like the laws that make murder illegal or the agencies that help keep dangerous sex offenders away from your children.

"Living Wage", at its roots, is ust the idea that the minimum wage should reflect the rising cost of living and inflation. Why is that so bad? Would you want to be paid the same wage as were paid 50 years ago? No.

5.25 x 40 = $210 a week. This is $10,920 a year. Wow. It shouldn't surprise anyone that unskilled people with one kid have trouble paying bills and can't afford luxuries like dental care.

Chuckles said...

Plus, I find it very disappointing that you are now tacitly endorsing abortion by saying that women who want to have children should quit their jobs.

I guess you are probably really in favor of women staying home and raising the children, but what if she makes more moeny and the husband stays with the kids? Your plan of making the maternity leave a voluntary benefit would deny a lot of women the choice of having kids. That is pretty heartless.

teh l4m3 said...

Shorter canuck: "Oh, heavens, whoever will stick up for the poor, pitiable corporations? Fiends!"

Anonymous said...

Yes, yes. I am heartless for thinking that unskilled labour getting paid less than someone who is skilled is fair. I am heartless for making someone who doesn't have a child pay for women who do decide to have children. I am heartless for forcing someone not to be comfortable in a unskilled job by making them better themselves for a skilled job. And I am heartless for making someone choose over the fancy house and getting their nails done over staying home and making *gasp* sacrifices in order to raise children. I am heartless for not coddling people.

I have an idea! You have a choice on your taxes, did you choose not to receive a return Chuckles? In fact, did you offer to dish out more money than your minimum on your taxes? (try aiming for 50%. that seems to be the usual for socialist countries) You should, you preach it enough. And yes, I still think making it a law to wash your hands is silly. Doesn't one just get fired if they don't wash their hands after using the washroom while at work, or do they get arrested?

Chuckles said...

"try aiming for 50%. that seems to be the usual for socialist countries"

Where the hell do you hear this stuff, Canuck? Denmark's taxes were around 30% when I lived there, but I am not certain of the situation now or in any other country.

"Doesn't one just get fired if they don't wash their hands after using the washroom while at work, or do they get arrested?"

I think it depends on how often the restaraunt is fined by the health department. Why do you think we even have a Health and Human Services Department, Canuck? You seem to think that if we didn;t have a government, everything would be fine. That is total crap. Look at Somalia, they don't have a government? Why aren't conservatives flocking there? Oh, that's right, it's a frigging cesspool.

Furthermore, in regards to this whole, why don't they better themselves argument: training costs money. If you are barely earning enough to get by, how the hell can you spare the time and money to learn a new trade? That is the big Republican BS tactic based on The Parable of Talents in Acts. What a load of crap.

Anonymous said...

Canada, Chuckles. I personally know, wait..does personally having 50% of your wages count, or does that not fly either. Also, 30% of having my pay taken away from me is just plain wrong. You take that 30%, then taxes when I purchase a product, then taxes on gas, license and all the other taxes and you're spending WAY more than just 30%.

Also, I have never stated we don't need government, we do. I just believe we need smaller government and not the type that tells me when it's okay to sh*t and then wipes my ass for me.

There are too many opportunities in this country to succeed. You telling me it's impossible to pull oneself up from being poor is the liberal BS. And what do you consider poor, anyway? Our "poor" live better than those who are considered middle class in even European countries. I am proud of the fact that we are able to do this for our poor, but let's not kid ourselves in what poor really is and when to help and when it becomes enabling.

Anonymous said...

Chuckles, just for the record, I don't believe you are wrong. One of the reasons I love living in the US is that we have two completely thoughts in the way things should be run. It forces us to find a middle ground. So, while I may disagree with you, I am happy we do.

Chuckles said...

"Our "poor" live better than those who are considered middle class in even European countries."

What? Could you back this up at all?

Canuck, what you are missing is that government is supposed to speak for those who can't and to act for those who can't. I could scream till I am blue in the face about health regulations in a restaraunt but it is government that has the authority through law to take action against offenders.

Otherwise, we are just a bunch of morons beating the hell out of people for supposed transgressions.

Adorable Girlfriend said...

Canuck, Canuck, Canuck! Yet again, you cease to know much about what you're talking about. How do you expect certain groups to pull themselves up by the boot straps? Do you honestly think 1/3 of all African American men deserve jail time during their lives? What about their children during that time?

Yes, those kids are going to have it easy and fair. You're right, they can just buckle down and get a nice education and go to college and run Enron. Problem solved. The mere fact that some of us spend time teaching their dads to read is enabling them I suppose in your mind. I guess we enable them too when mom works, but rent costs more then she makes, so we feed them a breakfast at school.

I guess we'll starve those working poor families' children across the nation. Thank goodness we have a plan to save the US. Now, if only they could just take out loans like crazy and get that nursing degree from the local community college. You know, with the free time they have when they aren't raising children or working two jobs.

Furthermore, what does Chuckles getting a tax return, if he even gets one, have to do with anything? He very well may be entitled to one after he has paid the required taxes. Did you stop and think about that? Maybe it's more then money, it's free care or volunteering. Maybe if you spent a bit more time doing that and a bit less blogging about things you are generally wrong about, you could lower your taxes.

If you think I am wrong, I'd be happy to tell you what the estimated savings of free care is, like picking up your elderly next door pal's NY Times. It saves the State of New York a great deal and it is built into the annual budget. It's not chump change, doll.

If not, feel free to go back to Canada. You know, where people live a more classless society and actually don't try to step on each other to get ahead in a war of attrition.

P.S. You really need to get a clue if support reducing public health initiatives like hand washing. What next, children won't get immunizations.

Anonymous said...

Here ya go -http://www.heritage.org/Research/
Welfare/BG1713es.cfm


I love when AG thinks she's so smart, it makes me giggle.

Do you honestly think 1/3 of all African American men deserve jail time during their lives?

Yes. Yes, I do. People who commit crimes deserve jail time. Black or white.

What about their children during that time?

The legitimate ones they have with their wives or with all their baby-mamma's?

Yes, those kids are going to have it easy and fair. You're right, they can just buckle down and get a nice education and go to college and run Enron. Problem solved.

Yes, I do expect them to buckle down while they get their FREE education. And their welfare mothers should be making sure their children are doing well in order to succeed in life. All this boo-hooing about daddy's being in jail, it's life. You work hard and you get ahead. I'm sure whatever it is you do AG, it didn't come easy. I would think you had to work to get where you are.

Ha, you used the word "entitled", how appropriate. The only thing Chuckles would be entitled to is paying more in taxes. At the moment he's not paying what a social society's taxes would be. Perhaps if he were to actually pay (you also) the taxes it would take to run a socialist country you would see it's not worth it, for anyone.

And yes, I would like the estimates of savings on "free care"? I totally agree with you on voluntary work. Communities need/have to help one another, but not be forced into it by the government. Example: our neighbours husband dropped dead (literally, in his garage) and we have pooled together funds to help her out -the government didn't have to force us to do this, we just did it. I have no idea what happened to people not helping people out, but I do my part -and all without the government forcing me...imagine!

Also, what, in your mind, makes you think I would ever move back to Canada?! Good lord, the way the taxes are and the crapola health system, no way.

I love how you ended your post about the children and immunizing them. In the end, isn't it really about the children. *rolls eyes* (Yeah, let's not get too carried away with my idea of smaller government, geez.)

Chuckles said...

"The legitimate ones they have with their wives or with all their baby-mamma's?"

This is a pretty descriptive sentence. Basically, you are penalizing children for being born, Canuck. Children born out of wedlock must be evil becuase of the sin involved in their birth, I guess. That is pretty hypocritical of you, Canuck. I thought you were anti-abortion and in favor of Jesus' teachings.

My tax duty currently floats at close to 30%. I have one job which has suddenly begun to look shaky and I was self employed for most of last year. I owe around 3 or 4 grand in taxes, for all those wonderful things like public transportation, public sanitation, public security, etc. I pay this because I believe that I owe my society and culture for helping me become the person I am. No one really does it alone, there is always a larger community that helps. I owe that society and while it may hurt my ability to go out and see shows, I will pay every red cent I woe, because I think the Jesus from the Jefferson Bible was a good example as was Buddha, Ghandi, MLK, Plato, Socrates, and a few others.

Should I ever get a draft notice (I am still eligible!), I will also fulfill that duty as well. Canuck, I am not really surprised at your responses. I just hope that maybe you will learn that there are people that are willing to lie and use your faith to get you to believe that they are helping you, in reality they only want your support in their destructive desire for money.

Anonymous said...

Chuckles, my comment about baby-mamma's was as sarcastic one, not one of judgment on unborn children. (But I think you knew that.)

How did the conversation turn from Walmart and the government to religion and me allofthesudden handing over my money? Chuckles, really, after all I've written, what makes you think I just hand over my money to anyone?

political_refugee said...

Given the age of so many of the workers and the number of employees working, workers probably do die everyday from working at Wal-Mart. Perhaps after the first paycheque

almostinfamous said...

wait... canuck takes heritage seriously enough to rely on their data?????????

pardon me while i laugh myself to tears.

AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHA. AAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

FYI, they drink more unadulterated right-wing kool-aid there than anyone except discovery or whoever it is that is pushing the creationist babble.

(note: AEI doesn't count cause they create the kool-aid all these piggies drink.)

also, for a randroid canuck you're pretty weak on the debating skillz0r5

jzffray: the jesus-friendly death ray

Anonymous said...

Hmmm, well AI, if one has never traveled to Europe I suppose they would not know that apartments and such are smaller than those living off the government here. But, then again, I highly doubt you are that ignorant.

Heck, you don't even have to go across the ocean to see how our good "poor" have it here. Just take a look around here or even in Canada. There are people living in government housing bigger than apartments I used to live in. Are you saying those stats I provided are COMPLETELY wrong? I suggest you take a peek at all the "poor" we have living here. People who live in card board boxes or tattered homes in this country are not anywhere near what you apparently think. May I suggest you travel to a place where true poor people live, you'll be amazed at how good we treat our poor here.

Again, you seem very concerned with this topic. I will suggest to you what I have suggested to your friends, start by giving up more of your own money to the government, after all, if you were to get your way it's what the government would be doing anyway.

This topic has straying from how the government is imposing on businesses.

Chuckles said...

Canuck, do you have any proof that 'poor people' and public housing Europe is so much smaller than the US?

Anecdotal evidence is not enough anymore for anyone ivolved in this discussion. Frankly, neither is any other resource than the Pew Charitable Trusts. The Heritage Foundation, AEI and Discovery Institute are off limits as they are known fabricators of biased studies.

Adorable Girlfriend said...

The obvious racist comments have ended any further discourse I will have with Canuck. Canuck, you should go back to Canada because as an American born citizen, I never approved of your ass being here in the first place. Thank goodness you can never, never become President of the US.

(AG laughs at how she disses Canada but use the name, 'Canuck'. Can anyone say, flip-flop?!)

AG sings her happy song thinking of her boys AIF and Chuckie.

Chuckie, 41 comments -- you rule!

Anonymous said...

Nice AG, couldn't think of anything better than to use the racists card? I was wondering when that would be used. And yes, I will diss on Canada's health care system because it sucks. Had you ever lived there and had to use said health care system you would know.

And Chuckles, perhaps you and your friends should get out of where-ever-it-is you are living and really take a good look around. For as "genius" you and your friends like to pat yourselves on the back for, I find your lack of knowledge about real life disturbing. You talk about the poor in the country, yet have you ever really gone out and looked at where the majority live? That question was a rhetorical one since the comments here have suggested other wise.

Question: Have any of you actually been on welfare? Have any of you actually been "poor"? Do you believe welfare should be a temporary thing or a way of life. Do you not find it disturbing that there are generations of people who have been on welfare?

Chuckles said...

Canuck, what is with the hostility?

Anecdotal evidence is insufficient for any debate. If we want to get all talky about it, yes I have seen the shit that exists on our streets. I have seen the homeless in the east, midwest and west coast. I have been to Europe and Africa and I still say that my experience is in now way evidence of anything. Unbiased government studies using primary sources are the only fair source for these sorts of arguments. Perhaps the health care only sucked locally in Canada.

Anonymous said...

Chuckles, the health care system in Canada does suck and it's not anywhere near close to being as good as here. (As in, you have to wait forever to see a doctor and seeing a specialist is almost impossible.) As for it being regional, I would bet that it's not.

Second, poor people in this country DO have it better than in other countries, I do not see a reason in providing stats on the obvious.

Third, I wasn't talking about homeless people. I am talking people who live on welfare -those considered oh-so "poor". Those are the people we enable. Those are the people who are able to work but don't. If you have never had friends on welfare, or been around it, then it's just possible you have no idea what I am talking about -which would explain a lot.

Chuckles said...

"Second, poor people in this country DO have it better than in other countries, I do not see a reason in providing stats on the obvious."

This is the same explanation people use for creationism. It isn't valid in this discussion either.

Anonymous said...

Chuckles, how would you rate the "poor" in this country? Do you believe they should be living off welfare as a way of life, or do you believe welfare is a temporary help?

Anonymous said...

PS. Chuckles, I would be discussing the off topics with you via email, but I did not see a contact thing on your blog.